ANDREW WATT Believes TONY IOMMI's Comment About Potential Final BLACK SABBATH Album Was 'Taken Out Of Context'

In a new interview with Brian Hiatt of The Rolling Stone Studio podcast, producer Andrew Watt claims that Ozzy Osbourne, Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler all wanted to make one more BLACK SABBATH album with the group's original lineup as a follow-up to 2013's "13" LP, but that the LP never materialized because Bill Ward "was unable to do" it "for personal reasons".

"13" didn't feature original BLACK SABBATH drummer Bill Ward due to a breakdown in contractual negotiations. While he was initially on board for the 2011 reunion of SABBATH's original lineup, Ward stepped away in early 2012, calling the offered agreement an "unsignable contract" that did not reflect his contributions to the band.

Asked about Iommi's recent comment that he didn't want to make the final BLACK SABBATH album that Watt wanted to make because Andrew was "too excited" about it, Watt, who produced Osbourne's final two solo albums, 2020's "Ordinary Man" and 2022's "Patient Number 9", said (as transcribed by BLABBERMOUTH.NET): "That, I think, is taken out of context. You know me. I'm definitely an excited musician, a person. That would be a true statement. But that's not why it didn't happen. Ozzy was wanting to continue to work and make stuff, and we were making music, and he had the idea, 'cause we were talking about, 'Let's try and do something a little different than…' The two albums that we made, 'Ordinary Man' and 'Patient Number 9', were different albums, but they were of the same DNA. So we're, like, 'What could we do that's different?' 'Do you wanna make something with Tony?' 'Should we make an Osbourne/Iommi album?' We were talking about that, and then he was just, like, 'Let's make a SABBATH album.' He's, like, 'We didn't do an album with Bill Ward.' I think looking back at all the stuff he wanted to do, making an album with Bill was really important to him. And this was before [Ozzy and SABBATH's final concert] 'Back To The Beginning' was happening and everything. I think the idea of doing something with Bill was very, very important, and so one of the first incarnations of that was a potential album. As Ozzy does, he gave me the marching orders, 'Call Tony. Then you call Geezer. Then you call Bill.' So, I called Tony. [I said,] 'Would you wanna do it?' [He said,] 'Yeah, that sounds cool. If Bill would do it, yes.' Geezer [said], 'If Bill would do it, yes.' It was all about, 'If Bill would do it, yes.' So then I had to have a conversation with Bill. And that was one of the strangest and funniest and coolest, at the same time, 'cause you're talking to Bill Ward, conversations. It was a long conversation. He was speaking in tongues, which, now knowing him and being friends with him, makes sense. Long story short, without going into it too deeply, he was unable to do the album for personal reasons. And there was a nice, beautiful, long e-mail sent to all of us, and I was on an e-mail with the original members of BLACK SABBATH, which was pretty cool. Then, after we talked and it was, like, 'Okay, Bill can't do it, and there's no reason to do it.' I'm sure Tony didn't feel like going into all of that [when he spoke about it in an interview with Classic Rock magazine in September]."

Andrew continued: "Tony's awesome. He's a great friend to me. He's a great mentor. We made a couple songs together on Ozzy's album and had an amazing time working together.

"I was definitely excited about the fact that [a SABBATH album was a possibility] and everything, but that wasn't the reason why we didn't make the album. I think [Tony] was just taking the piss [in the Classic Rock interview], which, anyone that wants to do that with me, they absolutely should."

Asked if there are any unreleased Ozzy songs that could surface at some point in the future, Andrew said: "There are some songs that we made for a specific reason. And, yeah, that's all I can say. They're hard for me to listen to. I haven't listened to [them]."

As for whether there are any plans to release those songs, Watt said: "Kind of. 'Back To The Beginning', the night before the concert, I actually went in Birmingham with Sharon [Ozzy's wife and manager] and a couple of people to go get a curry, and I was texting with Ozzy. He was in his hotel room, and he was, like, 'Come to the hotel, come to the hotel.' I was sitting with Sharon, and we were both, like, 'He has a big day tomorrow. Maybe I shouldn't go 'cause he'll get excited and everything.' But he was, like, 'No, you're coming to the hotel. You are coming.' So I went. I brought a curry with me and sat with him. And he was drawing like he usually does, and we sat and we listened to the stuff that we had made and made notes. That and the next day were the last times I got to see him. But we had a beautiful listening session and talked about a lot of stuff."

Andrew also reflected on his friendship with the late BLACK SABBATH singer, saying: "It's hard to think about, but I miss him every day. He had so many things he taught me about. And if Ozzy Osbourne chose you, he gave you a career. I mean, he did it over and over and over again. I always loved rock music, but I was a pop producer before he chose to let me stand next to him and work with him, and then I got to do all these amazing things after. But he was the first one. And if you look at what he — he chose Randy Rhoads. He chose Zakk Wylde, Jake E. Lee. And then even you get to, like, now currently, Yungblud [British rocker Dominic Harrison]. Yungblud was on an amazing path before the 'Back To The Beginning' concert, but Ozzy chose 'Changes' for him to sing and loved Dom as a person and what he was doing as an artist and brought him out there. And he sang that song, and it changed his life."

In September, Iommi gave a slightly different version of why a final BLACK SABBATH album didn't happen, telling Classic Rock magazine that Watt had approached him in the early 2020s about making a SABBATH record with the original lineup.

"I'd met Andrew Watt when he was producing Ozzy," the SABBATH guitarist said. "He was very keen and a bit too excited. He also didn't know what it was like working with the original SABBATH, working with Bill. Also, we'd done '13', and I didn't like the idea of: 'Now here's another album.'"

"13", the first SABBATH album in 35 years to feature original SABBATH members Ozzy, Tony and bassist Geezer Butler, topped the Billboard album chart when it arrived in June 2013 — giving the band their first U.S. No. 1 album ever.

SABBATH used Ozzy's regular touring drummer Tommy Clufetos for live work in support of "13". RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE's Brad Wilk laid down the drum tracks on "13", which entered the official U.K. chart at position No. 1. Prior to 2013, the last time SABBATH topped the chart in the U.K. was 43 years earlier — in October 1970 — with the band's second LP, "Paranoid".

Although BLACK SABBATH initially announced it would record a follow-up to "13" — and even hinted at having songs ready — that talk faded while the band instead unveiled its farewell tour, which launched in early 2016. Ozzy later confirmed to The Pulse Of Radio that the album plans had been scrapped. "We were gonna do one before the tour, but it would take three or four years to write and record an album," he said. "And so we decided just to do a farewell tour. If we did an album and it went to No. 2, people would go, 'It's over.' There's only one more place you can go after No. 1 and that's No. 2, you know."

In 2015, Ozzy told NOLA.com about the chances of a new studio effort: "I don't want to say there's going to be another album, because I don't want you to ask me in another year, 'What happened when you said you were going to do another record?'"

Back in May 2014, Ozzy told Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates' The National about the possibility of SABBATH making a follow-up album to "13": "You know what? If we have another album in us, I would do it. To be honest with you, I haven't talked to the rest of the guys about whether they want to do another album with me. We didn't sit down and plan our next move. But I am up for it. If they say, 'Let's do another album,' then I don't mind. But at the same time, I have my own solo career, which is doing great, so I always want to work on that. Time is not on my side anymore, so I want to put all my irons in the fire and whatever comes out the hottest, then I will just go for it."

Around the same time, Butler also seemed open to the idea of the reunited band recording a follow-up to "13", saying that he, Iommi and Osbourne already had a head start on a new record. He explained: "We've still got four tracks left over from ['13']. So maybe we'll fill in the other four or five tracks and put out another album — if it's right. We wouldn't do it just for the sake of it, or the money or whatever. But yeah, maybe."

In a 2022 interview with Stereogum, Ozzy was asked if he still felt good about where "13" left things. He responded: "Not really, because, to be perfectly honest, I didn't really get a charge from the album. Although [producer] Rick Rubin is a good friend of mine, I wasn't really… I was just singing. It was like stepping back in time, but it wasn't a glorious period. Though Geezer did a lot of lyric writing for me, which he's very, very good at. It wasn't an earth-shattering experience for me."

He added: "The only thing I really regret, to be honest, is that Bill Ward didn't play on the ['13'] album. It wasn't really a BLACK SABBATH album. I'm not saying that one day we might not all go in a room and come up with the perfect BLACK SABBATH album. But I'll say, ['13'] wasn't recorded the way BLACK SABBATH recorded records. We'd gone right back past the point where we took charge, back to when someone else had full control of our recording. Which we never did from 'Vol. 4' onwards."

In April 2022, Geezer spoke about Rubin's involvement with "13" during an appearance on SiriusXM's "Trunk Nation With Eddie Trunk" show. He said: "Some of [the '13' album] I liked, some of it I didn't like particularly. It was a weird experience, especially with being told to forget that you're a heavy metal band. That was the first thing [Rick] said to us. He played us our very first album, and he said, 'Cast your mind back to then when there was no such thing as heavy metal or anything like that, and pretend it's the follow-up album to that,' which is a ridiculous thing to think."

When host Eddie Trunk noted that many other artists who have worked with Rubin walked away from the experience feeling a bit underwhelmed, Butler said: "I still don't know what he did. It's, like, 'Yeah, that's good.' 'No, don't do that.' And you go, 'Why?' [And he'd say], 'Just don't do it.' I think Ozzy one day went nuts 'cause he'd done, like, 10 different vocals, and Rick kept saying, 'Yeah, that's great, but do another one.' And Ozzy was, like, 'If it's great, why am I doing another one?' He just lost it. And that's the way it was. Tony wasn't happy with some of the stuff he was trying to make him play. He was making Tony get 1968 amps — as if that's gonna make it sound like back in 1968. It's mad. But it's good for publicity and it's good for the record company. If you've got Rick Rubin involved, then it must be good, kind of thing."

In an official documentary chronicling the making of the "13" album, Geezer was more complimentary about collaborating with Rubin, saying: "It's great with Rick Rubin in charge. He's got a great track record and he comes up with some great ideas. Some work, some don't, but it's worth trying."

When Iommi was asked about working with Rubin in a 2013 interview with Guitar Player magazine, he said: "It was fine once we got used to him. We didn't know how he was going to work, because through the writing period, we didn't see a lot of him. He'd say, 'Phone me up when you've got an idea and I'll come down.' So we'd have a track together and phone him up or e-mail him, and then he'd come down and say, 'Yeah, I like this part, but I don't like that part' or 'I like everything,' whatever it may be, and then he'd go. He was only there perhaps ten or 15 minutes at the most. We didn't know how he was going to approach recording. It was all a bit of a mystery to us… It's sort of left to the last minute, and then he throws it at you. He just pushes that much more, and that's difficult for a band like us. We've been around so long, it's hard to accept criticism from somebody we've never worked with. But we did, and it was good. It was really good. We might be working on a track, and he'd go, 'Oh no, it doesn't feel right. Try it again and try extending that part.' So we'd do it and then we'd be thinking to ourselves that it may be too long, but we'd do it anyway. And then he'd go, 'That doesn't feel right. Let's try another one.' And then he'd say, 'Okay I think we've got it, but do you want to just try another one?' So we would try another one, and he'd say, 'Okay, let's leave it now.' So we never knew exactly which one he was going to pick."

Asked in a 2021 interview with SPIN if he had learned anything from working with Rubin, Iommi quipped: "Yeah, I learned how to lie on the couch with a mic in my hand and say 'Next!' ... It was just different, the way he works. He wanted to find the original SABBATH sound. He said, 'Have you got your original amps?' I said, 'Rick, that was 50 years ago. Do you have any amps from 50 years ago? … I don't have them, they've blown up. They're gone long ago. I've got my own amps now.' He said, 'No, we need the old stuff.'

"So, I get to the studio, and there are 20 different bloody amps there. He goes, 'They're vintage amps.' I said, 'That doesn't mean they sound good; they're just old.' He went, 'Well, let's try them.' I tried them, and I didn't like any of them.

"So it was a bit of a backwards and forwards till he got used to me, and I got used to him, really," Iommi added. "But we did it, and the album was very basic. I'd done a lot of the songs from the last album in my studio at home. I thought the sound was better, to be honest. But there was more stuff involved; I put more instruments on it. He just wanted it very bare and very basic, which you know, was good."

Ward in May 2012 announced that he was declining to join his SABBATH bandmates for their scheduled dates, as well as the recording of the new album, due to the aforementioned contractual dispute. After SABBATH shot down Rubin's suggestion to replace Ward with Ginger Baker (CREAM) ("I thought, 'Bloody hell?'" Iommi told Rolling Stone magazine. "I just couldn't see that."),Rick suggested Wilk.

The original lineup of BLACK SABBATH — Iommi, Osbourne, Ward and Butler — played its final concert more than a year ago. Dubbed "Back To The Beginning", the charity show was held at Villa Park in Birmingham, United Kingdom on July 5, 2025.

Ozzy passed away on July 22, 2025. The BLACK SABBATH frontman died from a heart attack he suffered at his family home near Chalfont St. Giles in Buckinghamshire, England, People magazine confirmed at the time. Osbourne was transported via helicopter to Harefield Hospital in Uxbridge, where he was pronounced dead. He was 76.

Photo credit: Ross Halfin (image courtesy of SRO PR / Premier for "Ozzy & Black Sabbath: Back To The Beginning")